Tuesday, January 27, 2009

Creative Writing MFA Rankings: The TSE Top 100

[EDITOR'S NOTE: Hello! Welcome to the site. If you plan to regularly check in here for MFA rankings, I hope you'll consider also making a small donation (even $10) to the website in recognition of the effort it takes to compile/spreadsheet all this data. Donations can be made via PayPal at the link below; it's 100% secure and takes less than two minutes to do. As a fellow full-time student (along with everything that status connotes, like massive debt!) I can't tell you how much donations, of any size, are appreciated. Thanks in advance for your consideration, and best of luck with all your applications!].









[For additional rankings from 2007 and 2008, see the right-hand sidebar on this page].


Introduction

No one spends more time researching MFA programs, or considering their relative strengths and weaknesses--using both hard data (selectivity, class size, duration, funding, et. al.) and soft data (reputation, alumni success, location, et. al.)--than MFA applicants. MFA faculties are, by definition, less interested and invested in the topic of current MFA program reputations, and for this reason it was always a bit of a mystery why U.S. News & World Report polled only MFA professors during their 1996 (and only, reprints notwithstanding) ranking of MFA programs. Quite simply, tenured professors are focused on their own writing and--to a lesser extent--on teaching MFA students, and since no aspect of their advising duties involves recommending MFA programs to their charges, it's not a subject on which they are or could be expected to be current or engaged. MFA applicants, in contrast, have something vitally at stake in getting their matriculation decision right: thousands and thousands of dollars, years of their lives, their current and future happiness, their chances of advancing within their chosen field.

This ranking is based on the premise that the best way to access a particular truth is to harness the vital human resource of an enormous class of persons aggressively dedicated to accessing that truth. In this case, the key question is "Which MFA program is held in the highest esteem by applicants?", and applicants are voting not merely with their application lists (the data-source used in the creation of this poll), but even, in a more immediate sense, with their hard-earned money--applications cost money, after all (in some cases, more than $100 apiece).

Nor is the theory behind this ranking--that polling professors raises the question of the nature of expertise, and polling graduates questions of bias, scale, and representative samples--a novel one. Social scientists have long been aware of the notion of "Revealed Preference Rankings," an algorithm of which this poll is a modified example. The theory, of course, in simplest terms, is that the decisions actual people make on subjects of importance to them are more revealing than any questionnaire filled to the brim with hypothetical questions. MFA professors may be guided in part by the fact that they are only truly informed about programs at which their friends and closest peers are educators; MFA graduates will naturally have personal associations with their alma mater in a way which could make objective analysis of relative program strength impossible--and MFA graduates are certainly no more versed (and perhaps less so) in the strengths of programs they did not attend than those students currently looking seriously at a wide range of program options in the present day.

The TSE Top 100 is thus, while unscientific, a legitimate form of Modified Revealed Preference Ranking whose unscientific foundation is belied by the fact that, before all is said and done, the poll will have catalogued the preferences of more than 10% of the total MFA applicant pool in the United States. Given that, in political polling (the most popular brand of polling in America, with athletics a distant second) a polling sample size of 500 is considered reasonable for a voting population of many millions, the TSE Top 100 is in a unique position to get things "closer to right" than we ever could have expected or imagined when U.S. News & World Report was polling largely under-informed parties on a massive scale more than a decade ago.

Critics of this ranking--what few there are (reaction to the TSE100 is literally running approximately 98 to 2 in the positive)--have misunderstood the poll/ranking by presuming it is intended to calculate actual applications to MFA programs. The TSE100 isn't designed for this, for two reasons: one, data-points used for the TSE100 are not restricted to application lists, but also prospective "top program" lists written by those who are not current applicants (though it should be noted that such lists make up only a minuscule fraction of the data-points for the TSE100); two, and more importantly, the TSE100 can only gather data from those applicants who use online researching and online communities to help them make their matriculation decision--those applicants who do little or no research into programs online, or little or no research whatsoever, are unlikely to be captured by the methodology of the TSE100. And yet, this is little loss: such applicants are either misinformed (because they are using, for instance, the now-obsolete and irrelevant U.S. News & World Report rankings from well over a decade ago) or else literally not "informed" at all (because they are basing their decisions on hearsay, or speculation, or bias, or preconceived notions of various colleges and universities which have nothing to do with the strength of their respective graduate writing programs). It is worth noting, too, that more information about MFA programs is now available online than ever before, and so the "knowledge gap" between largely-offline and largely-online MFA researchers has become considerable. It would not be unreasonable to assert, in fact, that the knowledge of largely-offline MFA applicants is far more likely to be wrong than right, and to the extent such individuals are not polled by the TSE100 it is almost certainly to the poll/ranking's benefit that this is so.

Those reading this introduction, and other writings on the TSE100 and similar endeavors (see the right-hand sidebar of this website), may wonder at the use of the term "poll/ranking" to describe the TSE100. Hopefully readers will see the sense in this: while the TSE100, in the literal sense, represents a "poll" of applicants, the resulting data can be constituted as a "ranking" of current MFA applicant esteem for the various MFA programs in the United States. While some detractors of the TSE100 cite the "lists" published by The Atlantic as being of greater interest to them, only a disinterest in methodology could explain this: first, because The Atlantic advertised these lists as "lists" and not "rankings" (meaning, no distinctions were made between entrants to any particular "list"); second, because The Atlantic conceded these lists were non-exhaustive (meaning, programs which advertise themselves as being in the "top five" in a given Atlantic category because they were included in a given list are willfully misreading the article, which indicates that many other programs could have made each of the lists with equal justification, but were not included for reasons unstated by The Atlantic); third, because the "lists" were compiled by a single individual based on a small number of interviews at only certain MFA programs, which MFA programs appear to have been at least partly selected either because the writer himself attended those programs or because he knew individuals who taught there; fourth, because the shocking (and, by all accounts, unwarranted) appearance of the writer's alma mater on his "top ten overall" list has called into question the objectivity of the entire article. It is worth noting, indeed, that the program in question--included by the author as a top MFA program--was up until two years ago not an MFA program at all, but an academic Master's (MA). Moreover, in an era in which MFA applicants are seeking the longest and best-funded programs possible--leading to the ascension of countless fully-funded three-year programs in the current rankings--the school so coincidentally promoted by the author of The Atlantic article is the only one-year program in the United States, and only "average" to "above-average" in its funding (current estimates would place it between 50th and 70th nationally, out of about 140 full-time, full-residency MFA programs in the U.S.).

While it is true that I am an attorney, a former journalist, a published author, an MFA student, and a contributing author to the sole comprehensive reference guide currently on the market for MFA programs--and therefore in as good (or better) a position than the author of The Atlantic article to compile rankings of the sort below--the fact remains that, unlike the "lists" done by The Atlantic, the ranking below is not "my" ranking. It is, instead, a compilation of data from literally hundreds of unique sources, all of whom are (by definition) not affiliated with any of the ranked programs (another reason to favor applicants over MFA professors or program graduates). It is evident, therefore, that while it remains true no scientific ranking of MFA programs has ever been compiled--institutionally-affiliated rankings are not, in fact, synonymous to scientific ones, to the chagrin of some--what follows, below, is undoubtedly the most comprehensive and accurate ranking of MFA programs ever to appear online or in print.

Methodology

The methodology for this ranking is exceedingly simple, commensurate with the above history: unique Blogger accounts were polled to determine MFA applicants' preferences, either in terms of which programs the account-holder planned to apply to, had already applied to, or would apply to if the account-holder were presently applying to programs. Each mention of a school was recorded as one (1) vote for that program.

While, as noted above, these rankings are not scientific, it is worth noting their remarkably high degree of correlation with every other bit of polling data taken from MFA applicants in the last 36 months. In other words, if ever it was a well-kept secret which creative writing MFA programs were considered by current MFA applicants the best in America, that secret is now officially out.

If you'd like to cross-index these rankings yourself with those issued during the 2006-7 and 2007-8 MFA application cycles, feel free to make liberal use of the links in the right-hand sidebar. Please note that neither this poll nor its resultant ranking, nor any other poll or ranking on this site, is in any way associated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Google, Blogger, or Blogspot.

NB: The rankings will be updated regularly through April 15, 2009.


Overall Tier 1:





THE TSE TOP 100 MFA RANKINGS (Last Updated 4.15.09)

(votes in parentheses, and significant gainers/decliners since 2007 in blue and red, respectively)

[UPDATE 3.6.09: As of today, the TSE100 will only rank applications to programs in fiction and poetry. For nonfiction rankings, see the newly-updated rankings in the right-hand sidebar. This change is made to level the playing field--i.e., so as not to disadvantage the more than 75 MFA programs which do not offer the nonfiction genre].


1. University of Iowa (253)

2. University of Michigan (169)

3. University of Virginia (144)

4t. University of Massachusetts at Amherst (132)

4t. University of Texas (132)

6. University of Wisconsin (129) *

7. Brown University (127)

8. New York University (125)

9. Cornell University (110)

10. University of Oregon (104)

11. Syracuse University (97)

12. Indiana University (93)

13. University of California at Irvine (91)

14. University of Minnesota (85)

15. Brooklyn College (81)

16. University of Montana (78)

17. Johns Hopkins University (77)

18. Vanderbilt University (76)

19. University of North Carolina at Greensboro (75)

20. Washington University at St. Louis (70)

21. University of Florida (67)

22. Columbia University (66)

23. University of Notre Dame (62)

24t. Hollins University (56)

24t. University of North Carolina at Wilmington (56)

26t. Arizona State University (55)

26t. Hunter College [CUNY] (55)

26t. University of Houston (55)

29t. Colorado State University (53)

29t. The New School (53)

31t. Sarah Lawrence College (52)

31t. University of Washington (52)

33. University of Alabama (51)

34. University of Arizona (49)

35. Purdue University (45)

36. University of Arkansas (41)

37. George Mason University (40)

38. Boston University (39)

39. University of Nevada at Las Vegas (38)

40. Ohio State University (35)

41. University of Maryland (34)

42t. Florida State University (33)

42t. Louisiana State University (33)

42t. Rutgers University at Newark (33)

42t. University of New Hampshire (33)

46. Penn State University (32)

47t. Southern Illinois University (31)

47t. Texas State University at San Marcos (31)

49t. University of Illinois (30)

49t. University of Mississippi (30)

49t. Virginia Commonwealth University (30)

49t. Virginia Tech University (30)

53t. American University (25)

53t. Bowling Green State University (25)

53t. University of California at Davis (25) **

56. Emerson College (24)

57. Oregon State University (23)

58. University of San Francisco (22)

59t. San Francisco State University (20)

59t. University of New Mexico (20)

59t. University of Pittsburgh (20)

62. San Diego State University (19)

63t. Columbia College Chicago (18)

63t. University of Idaho (18)

65t. University of British Columbia [CAN] (17)

65t. University of California at San Diego (17)

65t. University of Colorado (17)

65t. University of Memphis (17)

69. New Mexico State University (16)

70t. Eastern Washington University (15)

70t. University of Wyoming (15)

72t. University of Georgia (14)

72t. University of Massachusetts at Boston (14)

74t. Minnesota State University at Mankato (13)

74t. West Virginia University (13)

76t. Georgia College & State University (12)

76t. School of the Art Institute of Chicago (12)

78t. CalArts (11)

78t. Chatham University (11)

78t. McNeese State University (11)

78t. University of California at Riverside (11)

78t. Western Michigan University (11)

83t. California College Of the Arts (10)

83t. Northwestern University (10)

83t. Saint Mary's College of California (10)

86t. Boise State University (9)

86t. Florida International University (9)

86t. Mills College (9)

86t. Queens College [CUNY] (9)

86t. University of New Orleans (9)

91t. University of Alaska at Fairbanks (8)

91t. University of Miami (8)

93t. California State University at Long Beach (7)

93t. City College of New York [CCNY] (7)

93t. Old Dominion University (7)

96t. Iowa State University (6)

96t. North Carolina State University (6)

96t. Rutgers University at Camden (6)

96t. University of Baltimore (6)

100t. Portland State University (5)

100t. Roosevelt University (5)

100t. San Jose State University (5)

100t. University of Guelph-Humber [CAN] (5)

100t. University of Missouri at St. Louis (5)

100t. University of South Florida (5)


106t: Adelphi University (4); Northern Michigan University (4); Otis College of Art & Design (4); University of Kansas (4); University of South Carolina (4); University of Utah (4).

112t: Naropa University (3); NEOMFA (3); Oklahoma State University (3); University of Missouri at Kansas City (3).

116t: California State University at Fresno (2); Chapman University (2); Georgia State University (2); Hamline University (2); Minnesota State University at Moorhead (2); University of Central Florida (2); University of Texas at El Paso (2); Wichita State University (2).

124t: Bard College*** (1); Butler University (1); Florida Atlantic University (1); Long Island University at Brooklyn (1); Rosemont College (1); Southern Connecticut State University (1); State University of New York at Stony Brook Southhampton (1); University of Central Oklahoma (1); University of Southern California **** (1).

132t: California Institute of Integral Studies (0); California State University at Chico (0); California State University at San Bernardino (0); Chicago State University (0); Savannah College of Art & Design (0) *****; University of the South (0) ^; University of Texas-Pan American (0).


Top M.A. Programs w/ Creative Writing Emphasis: University of California at Davis (25); Temple University (5); University of Illinois at Chicago (4); Western Washington University (4); Kansas State University (3); University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee (2); University of Tennessee (2); University of Texas (2); Eastern Michigan University (1); Emerson College (1); Illinois State University (1); Manhattanville College (1); Miami University [OH] (1); Ohio University (1); San Francisco State University (1); University of Nebraska (1); University of Toronto [CAN] (1).

[138 full-residency creative writing MFA programs ranked; N = 508].

* The University of Wisconsin accepts students in only one genre per year (that is, poetry and fiction applicants alternate years). The program's vote total would therefore ordinarily reflect only one genre's worth of applicants. Consequently, Wisconsin's tally here has been adjusted on the basis of the fiction-to-poetry ratio of its applicant pool, which is exactly 2:1 (in its most recent "poetry year," Wisconsin had 195 applications, and in its most recent "fiction year" 390 applicants). Vote totals for the 2008-9 application cycle--a "poetry year" for the program--have therefore been tripled (as poetry applicants represent one-third of Wisconsin's total applicant pool) to determine the school's relative reputation across both of the two major creative writing genres. In 2009-10 (a "fiction year" for applications) vote totals for the program will instead be increased by only 50%. Had this fiction-year adjustment been made to the 2008 Poets & Writers Reader Poll, Wisconsin would have been ranked fifth nationally (instead of tenth).

** University of California at Davis, an M.A. (not MFA) program, is included here because application trends show it is the one M.A. program nationally which--despite being a non-terminal degree--MFA applicants treat as being on par with a terminal MFA degree. Poll respondents' application lists suggest that Davis is routinely the one non-terminal program a given applicant is applying to; in contrast, the other top-ranked M.A. programs (see list above) are almost exclusively applied to by M.A.-only applicants. MFA applicants are nevertheless advised to fully understand the consequences of receiving a non-terminal degree before applying to Davis or any other M.A. program.

*** Bard College can neither be classified as a low-residency or full-residency MFA program, and so it appears provisionally in this ranking (which does not include "true" low-residency programs, due to the different and specifically-tailored assessment rubric required for such programs). Whereas low-residency programs involve, as a rule, 2 to 4 residencies of 7 to 10 days (for a total residence of anywhere from 14 to 40 days), Bard requires 3 residencies of 54 days each, for a total of 162 days on campus (roughly the same amount of time on campus as required by a one-year, full-residency MFA program like Boston University).

**** University of Southern California is included here because it offers an MFA-equivalent terminal degree, the Masters in Professional Writing (MPW).

***** "Dramatic writing" MFA genres (playwriting and screenwriting) only. Students may be able to take nonfiction writing courses through the school's Professional Writing MFA. Call program for details.

^ Included here because the program's four summer semesters equate to a full-residency program, even if the thesis work completed by students occurs off-campus.

62 comments:

Raysen said...

Very illuminating list. My comments:

1. UC-San Diego, tied at #60, is just a twinkle in its mother's eye and hasn't even had its first session yet. Nevertheless, it is ranked ahead of traditional reliables -- Maryland, Boston U, NMSU, San Diego State (ouch!), Utah, and WVU.

2. Columbia is ranked at #43, probably because of its poor funding. Still, if I personally got accepted there, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

3. UMass-Amherst is #3 despite grumblings by P&W posters of questionable funding. I could be wrong here.

4. Minnesota, which was a school out of my radar, is at #4!?!?!?!

5. Montana is a surprising #10. I'm thinking it's the natural environment and good word-of-mouth.

6. UNC-Wilmington, despite less than ideal funding, is ranked ahead of Virginia?!?!?!

7. Infant program Vanderbilt is tied at #12, ahead of perennial powerhouse UC-Irvine, Syracuse, Wisconsin, and Johns Hopkins!?!?! This supports the argument that if your overall school enjoys a great reputation, your well-funded MFA program will benefit. What's next? Harvard, Princeton, Dartmouth, Chicago?

Very interesting list. I enjoyed reading it. Thanks to Seth for his hardwork in putting it together. You may not agree with it but you can't dismiss it.

Seth Abramson said...

Hi Raysen,

Some thoughts:

On decliners. I think it's worth noting that 11 of the 17 decliners in this poll have funding issues which have been publicly exposed over the past three years; only 4 of the 17 decliners can accurately be described as "well-funded" programs, and only 2 of the 17 are "fully-funded."

2. On Vanderbilt. One observation I made in Chapter 3 of the upcoming second edition of The Creative Writing MFA Handbook is that when schools with strong undergraduate pedigrees initiate MFA programs and near-fully or fully fund them, those programs will immediately enter the top 50 ranking of MFA programs, due to the significance applicants understandably attach to the schoolwide reputations of colleges and universities. Examples of this phenomenon in the 2009 ranking, above, include: Vanderbilt (#12); Purdue (#17); Wisconsin (#18); Notre Dame (#20); and Illinois (#33). Even with middling funding, Northwestern (#51), a top undergraduate program, nearly cracks the top 50 just three months after announcing it has added an MFA program to its degree offerings.

I've long said to friends--and would be willing to place money on this, were I a betting man--that were Harvard University to initiate and fund an MFA program, it would be ranked in the top five nationally within 24 months or less. I can only wonder who it is in the administration or on faculty at Harvard who is holding up the University from enjoying yet another top-five graduate program. Especially given the exploding popularity of the field of creative writing.

New versus old programs. Keep in mind that this poll/ranking details which schools the best informed applicants are applying to. Applicants who aren't researching schools online or finding online communities in which to discuss their applications are undoubtedly applying to the schools you mentioned in your comment at exactly the same rate they would have twelve years ago--when the now defunct and irrelevant USNWR rankings were issued. So, given that the majority of MFA applicants still aren't online (at least as school-seekers), I'd fully expect that the schools you mentioned will still get more apps this year than UCSD. What this poll/ranking tells us is that a) perhaps they shouldn't, and b) they likely won't for much longer.

On school reputations. Because this isn't a straight reputation ranking, there will be some schools which should be ranked higher assuming no need for financial aid on the part of the applicant (meaning, most applicants take that into account in making their list--the conventional wisdom that you don't pay for an MFA, that is--and therefore are less likely to apply to schools which offer reputation but no or nearly no funding). That said, polls and rankings do, over time, influence reputation. I've no doubt that many folks who would've viewed Columbia (exclusive of funding) as a top five program no longer do, and that some no longer even view it as a top ten program. And this isn't just a matter of perception; worse funding means lower yield and a weaker cohort, and as cohort is directly related to reputation, it's no wonder Columbia and other similar programs (many in NYC) are slipping significantly and not just as a matter of their funding.

On Massachusetts. The school's funding isn't questionable; it's merely that it's "above-average" rather than "very good." I'd still rank it at the back end of the top fifty best-funded programs, which isn't too shabby at all, considering there are more than 200 programs in the United States, and around 25 right off the bat which can claim to be "fully-funded" (a claim Massachusetts doesn't make).

On Virginia. I can't explain its slippage, unless it's that folks are realizing a) it isn't actually among the best-funded 20 programs, and b) due to its excessively small size and stunningly low acceptance rate--tied for the lowest in America--it isn't necessarily a particularly reasonable-odds option for most applicants. That, and the poetry genre is its strongest suit, in my view, and I heard recently that Charles Wright is retiring or has already retired.

Best,
Seth

May Fly: said...

Seth,

I've noticed both in this thread--as well as in your current MFA blog thread--that you seem to have the list of the 25-30 best funded programs. Can you post that list? Having the comprehensive list of best funded programs would be much appreciated.

Many thanks, Michael

Seth Abramson said...

Hi there May Fly,

Good question. The Abramson/Kealey Funding Ranking includes sixty MFA programs, and appears in the second edition of the Creative Writing MFA Handbook, due out in October from Continuum. You'll be able to find the full list there; unfortunately, because of that I can't reprint it here. Sorry about that. Best wishes,

Be well,
Seth

philip said...

Seth,

I posted my initial impressions of these rankings on the MFA Blog, but I wanted to add one more. It seems that two programs clearly didn't belong in the "Top 10" of the 2007 Atlantic Rankings: Florida State and Boston University. Neither of these programs have faired well in any of your own rankings, and I never hear much said about them on any of the blogs or messagebords I have visited. Am I missing something, or was their high placement a mistake?

Thanks again for your brilliant work, Seth!

Philip

P.S. You might want to also add a link to the 2009 rankings next to your 2007 and 2008 rankings on the sidebar. I had a hard time finding them at first.

Seth Abramson said...

Hi there Philip,

Yes, you're absolutely right. That's one of the observations I made about the Atlantic top-ten list (technically, it isn't a ranking) at the time it came out--those two schools were errors. The problem is that the author of the article had personal connections to BU and spoke to a disproportionate number of people there; moreover, he based his decision entirely on faculty, rather than conjoining that consideration with funding, duration of program, cost of living, class size, acceptance rate, health insurance coverage, or anything else, and didn't even consider that, while BU has a great faculty, there are at least fifteen other faculties just as good (meaning, even were faculty the only consideration, instead of one of thirty or more, BU would not be an immediate shoo-in for the top ten).

As to FSU, my hat goes off to Virgil Suarez, one of the hardest working MFA profs in America in terms of marketing his program--and I don't say that critically, I actually think it's a huge boon to the program at FSU that they market themselves so well. It also helps that they really do have a top-three PhD. in Creative Writing program; the Atlantic may have been a little starstruck by that, even though the initial ranking was supposed to only take into account MFA quality. As it happens, FSU is only competing with 36 other programs to be the best PhD. in Creative Writing, and nearly 200 to be the best Masters program. That's a key difference, too, and one that the--really quite lame and disappointing--Atlantic list missed.

Best,
Seth

Seth Abramson said...

P.S. You can read my comments on (and objections to) that article in The Atlantic here.

philip said...

Seth,

Thank you for the insights. Both of those explanations make a lot of sense to me.

I researched both programs and wasn't overly impressed by either, despite their endorsement by The Atlantic Monthly. I wondered if I was missing something, but now I think I understand why they fared so well. I tend to be swayed by an impressive faculty just as much as the next person, but that's only one of many considerations, since "big name" doesn't necessarily equal "good teacher." More impressive to me is the quality of the work coming out of the program, which is why I think a program like Iowa always does so well. Next to that, I look at funding opportunities, location and just general buzz--what people are saying on the web and what not.

brixton617 said...

I'm really curious why low-residency programs weren't included. Surely Warren Wilson deserves a spot somewhere.

Blake said...

I would also like to know a little more about low-res programs. I have looked around at message boards and blogs but the informal, localised comments can be frustrating. Lots of people talk about how good the school they attended is, which would make a disinterested (if there is such a thing) or third party, ranking or general list valuable to many.
Thanks too Seth, I appreciate the rankings, comments and advice. I'm coming from graduate work in philosophy, and the rankings in that discipline have brought the ire of many. I don't envy the occasional undeserving attack you seem to receive. How about a grain of salt for all!

jeannine said...

What?? No low-residency options AT ALL? Well, that is sad. I'm a huge fan of these programs (being the happy product of one, just recently, myself) especially for people with families and jobs, and ranking them (at least, when I was doing research) seems a difficult task - it would have been nice to at least try to put something about them into your ranking system.
Hey, The Atlantic ranked some of them (including my alma mater) last year - you could have linked to that info.

Kevin said...

Why is UVA so low?

Minnesota and UNC Greensboro? WTF? UMass has marginal funding; if you're lucky they let you teach freshman comp your first year (which would really blow). Indiana also makes you teach right off the bat, and later makes you teach two (!) classes per semester, so no time for writing there. And we all know UT Austin has a shitty faculty situation.

I think the methodology has eclipsed common sense.

Seth Abramson said...

Brixton, Blake, and Jeannine,

Re: low-res programs. The Atlantic rankings are linked to in the sidebar; the reason low-res programs aren't ranked in the main rankings is because it wouldn't be fair to them at all--the considerations are simply different for low-res programs, for many reasons, including that program location becomes a wholly differently-weighted factor, the funding is uniformly a non-issue (because low-res programs are nearly by definition unfunded), the faculties are particularly illustrious but the access to them is different and so must be differently weighted, the idea of low-res programs has been around too short a time for reputations to become well-established, and so on. Out of fairness to them, I thought/think a different ranking is needed--and I would do one(!), but there isn't enough data yet. That said, I've repeatedly written that I think the evidence is clear as to what the top three low-res programs are:

1. Warren Wilson
2. Bennington College
3. Vermont College

Once, way back, I even tiered all of the U.S. low-res programs--merely in my opinion--but I'm not sure where that post is. In any case, I'm by no means the expert on low-res, Erika Dreifus is, and I'd urge anyone considering low-res programs to Google her name and carefully read both her blog and personal website. She has *tons* of great info on there. So, I don't really feel--and not sure why anyone would think(!)--there's a need for one person, let alone me, to be an across-the-board expert on MFAs. I think it's much better when you have several writers on the subject with different areas of specialization. I "specialize" in full-res program data, but that's not intended as any slight to the low-res option, which is perfect for many applicants.

Be well,
Seth

Seth Abramson said...

Kevin,

A lot to say here, and not much time to write at the moment. I suppose I'd just point out that, in this context, your use of the term "common sense" means "my opinion," and this ranking represents the opinion of around seventy times larger a population than just you, so maybe "common sense" isn't what you thought? For instance, common sense says "money matters"--and Minnesota's funding and duration of funding well outstrips Virginia's. Also, Minnesota's nonfiction program may be the best in the country. Also, there isn't much daylight between the selectivity of the two programs in terms of acceptance rate. Also, your "common sense" is likely based on the USNWR96 rankings, which didn't list Minnesota at all high, leading to ten years of bias against the program which is only just now dissolving. And so on. That, and the rankings are fluid, so UVA will probably end up in the top five in the end, as it did in 2007 and 2008. But really, my point is this: this ranking is, by definition, the new "common sense." Particularly as the old common sense never asked a single MFA applicant anywhere in America for their opinion. Those days are over now.

Be well,
Seth

vipin said...

Seth,

Seeing Northwestern even make the list was surprising, and then not, your theory on programs with a strong undergraduate reputation makes complete sense. Do you think it matters which department the program is in? For example, Northwestern's MFA program is in the (marginal sounding) school for continuing studies, as opposed to it's english department as I've seen in other universities.

Blake said...

Seth
Thanks for your feedback about the low-res programs. Following on from Vipin's comment about Northwestern's MFA being in the continuing studies department. I would be curious to hear your thoughts on Harvard's extension school which runs an MA in Liberal Studies in which one can focus on creative writing. To graduate one must take the same amount of classes as many MFA programs and write a thesis. As it is the extension school the admission requirements are basically open (one takes three classes and must "prove" through their results that they can handle the workload) which may effect things. The degree is also very accessible as it is reasonably priced at around $1700 per course, and completed at night.
It is seems like something you might be interested in considering your comments about great undergraduate schools starting MFA programs and doing very well. In this case it seems all Harvard would need to do is move the program they already have, put in some rigorous admissions procedures, funding and hire a couple of full-time faculty.
I just thought I might bring this program to your attention if you weren't aware of it already, and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it. Obviously, it doesn't currently figure in discussions of programs and that is as it should be. In it's current format it is as much for people wishing to take a single class as a degree. But it's very existence is interesting, especially considering some of the faculty Harvard's English department already has-Birkerts springs to mind. Realistically all it would take is money, and the approval of a stuffy old board.
Anyway, my apologies on this entry's length but I just moved to Boston from overseas and my current employer's benefits would actually pay for me to take this degree (which makes it all the more interesting).
Cheers
Blake

jeannine said...

Thanks for your comment Seth! A very reasonable explanation. I think it would be nice to put a note up in your rankings, though, for people looking at both situtions, about where peeps can get the low-res info, and that you aren't including them in your current ranking system - some people may read your current system as just not giving low-res programs a ranking because you hate them or something.
Many thanks - just out to cheerlead for these programs, which I think are a wonderful alternative to the traditional system.
Oh, and some low-res programs do offer funding - Pacific does have TA-ships now, and New England College offers scholarships (or at least did when I applied there.)
I know your work makes a difference, and that's why I'm trying to get you to put something up for curious researchers - so that they will know where to go to get info on both types of programs.

muse of the violets said...

Seth,

Do you have an opinion of Florida Atlantic University's MFA program?

I'm struggling to find feedback -- good, bad or neutral...

All the best,
Violet

wScott said...

...And we all know UT Austin has a shitty faculty situation.

Actually, Kevin, I'm glad you say this because I don't know about the UT Austin faculty situation. This is a school that is in the top tier of my list, is well funded, is highly selective, etc. Yet I've read this and 1-or-2 posts elsewhere in the blogosphere that make similarly vague reference to the pitfalls of the Michener Center program.

Can anyone explain?

malcontent said...

wscott,

The commenter probably means that the Michener Center doesn't retain permanent faculty for its students. Instead the students take classes with the English department faculty and with visiting writers. The current visiting writer is ZZ Packer. As well, Dean Young has just left the IWW to join the faculty at Texas, and the English department seems to be planning to hire someone of similar renown in fiction next year.

The issue for Michener students has been more on the poetry side, as I understand it. However, because of the visiting writers arrangement, students do need to make sure to work with permanent faculty enough to build a relationship before they will need a thesis advisor.

I'm not aware of any other issues.

professorjfox said...

What about USC's Master of Professional Writing program? It consists of all the same things as an MFA (workshops in poetry, fiction, etc), and is a terminal degree in creative writing. Any plans to integrate that into the ranking?

Bob M said...

I thought FIU (#65) would have been higher. Hmmm.


Bob M

Blu said...

Hi Seth,

I appreciate your short ranking of the low-res MFA programs. I know that Warren Wilson has a highly reputable program and deserves that great reputation. They still don't offer non-fiction, however. Does that not, in your opinion, play a factor in their ranking?

I'll be attending Bennington in Non-Fiction, but will be working on poetry and fiction as well, and was accepted in poetry in another program. I couldn't even apply to Warren Wilson because I wouldn't go to a program that wouldn't allow me to work in all three genres. An amazing writer such as Edwidge Danticat, being a writer of fiction and some phenomenal non-fiction may not have considered Warren Wilson either when she was looking at MFA programs, (had she been inclined to go the low-res route). That limitation in their offerings could eliminate some dynamic writers from their pool. Does that not play in at all?

I know you said you're not the low-res expert. Still, I was wondering about your opinion on this.

Brett said...

Hi Seth,

After reading (over and over) your above response to May Fly (8/24), I feel my MFA research won't be complete until I study the new Abramson/Kealey Funding Ranking in the 2nd ed. of the Handbook. However, I'm led to believe I can't get a copy of the new book until November (specifics below).

I could wait until early November (or even late) to make my final list (a list driven by potential funding), but I don't want to put unnecessary pressure on my recommenders. I've read that I should give them forms and/or specifics by mid-October, and to do so would require having a finished list.

So now I'm wondering, should I order a copy of the old book and try to guess at the new funding findings by studying up/down movers on the Top 100? Am I being lazy by placing so much weight on the book's new list? Is my information from Continuum/Amazon even correct?

Here's why I say November:

I wanted to pre-order the new version on Amazon, but saw their estimated delivery date as November 4th. I called Amazon and they confirmed this date.

I emailed Continuum to see if I could get it faster directly from them, but today in an email a customer service rep wrote, "Unfortunately, I was told that the title will not be in until at the end of November." (End?!)

Again, I understand the value of doing my own research, but as part of that research I'd at least like to consult the newest edition of the book you and Tom (and surely others) have sweated over for [insert absurd amount of time here].

There hasn't been too much chatter about this on the sites (please forgive me if I'm missing something big), but I think many would be grateful for a book update...or strategy tip if indeed the new book will become available in November (vs. the October 1 publishing date on Continuum's website).

A monster THANK YOU for all the work you and Tom have done to bring clarity to the application process. TSE is at the top of my "nice" list for when I bust out the Santa hat in December.

All the best,

Brett

Seth Abramson said...

Hi there Brett,

I see your dilemma, and I imagine (though I don't know this for certain) that Continuum does too; the original plan, I think, was to have the book out earlier, but the way events came together is such that--as you say--it's coming out later in the application season than, let's face it, would be ideal.

That certainly does put current applicants in a situation where they have to assess how the book will/can fit into their plans for this application season; for instance, all applicants who want a copy of the book will almost certainly have one in hand at the time they must make a final decision on which of multiple admission offers (assuming one is in that fortuitous position) to accept. As to making a long-list of programs to apply to, that may not be possible (i.e., using the book this year for that purpose may not be possible); that said, if the book is out by Thanksgiving (I have no explicit information on this, but just surmising), that would still be more than a month and a half before some schools' deadlines, and in some cases two months (or, with respect to a school like BU, even longer [albeit admittedly, in the case of schools with 12/15 deadlines, much less, like two or three weeks]).

That suggests to me that one could spend September and October forming a portfolio, writing a personal statement applicable to many applications instead of just one, and even downloading and beginning to fill out applications online or otherwise at all the schools on one's long-list (most schools let you begin the application, and even nearly complete it, w/o having yet paid the application fee), and then in the final week of November trim schools from the long-list to create a short-list (acknowledging, for a moment, that because one probably needs/wants to form the long-list now, the short-list will simply be--must be--a sub-set of the long-list, and not a wholly new list).

As to recommenders, you might tell them you have a long-list of X number of schools, and that you can send them recommendation forms for Y schools (a sub-set of X), because those schools you will definitely be applying to no matter what. You can then say that you expect to send them the last (for instance) 2-4 forms later on in the fall. Given that, as you said, most folks give recommenders their forms in mid- to late October, you'd really only be saying to them (in effect, if not literally), "Hey, here are ten forms you'll probably not complete until about four or five weeks from now, and I'm letting you know now that--in four or five weeks--I'll probably send you two or three more, which won't be a huge hassle because that's when you'll actually be doing the other ten anyway."

Hope this makes sense. It's the best advice I can offer at the moment. I do know this isn't an ideal situation, and know also that (as a contributing author to the Handbook) I should probably tell you that the book is literally indispensable to making a long-list, but I've never given a piece of false advice before--advice I don't genuinely believe--and won't start now. The book is very useful, and will indeed be very useful for those applying this cycle to MFAs, but there are enough MFA-related resources and conversations to be found online that one can at least create a long-list now, and do all sorts of things to get applications near-complete by Thanksgiving--just shy, of course, of paying application fees to every school on one's long-list, or sending recommenders forms now to schools you may or may not decide to place on your short-list come Thanksgiving. I do believe every applicant has a sub-set of their long-list which is comprised of schools you know you'll apply to, and those applications (usually, for most applicants, 75% or more of all the applications they'll ultimately send out) are thankfully in no way hindered by the late fall release of the Handbook.

Best wishes,
Seth

ever_trying said...

Seth,
Thanks for all the information - it was incredibly helpful! Sorry I couldn't donate more - am located in Korea and losing a third of my salary to a crappy exchange rate. I've been poring over the stats and rankings, and it's all helped me to make some strategic decisions.

Sara Kearns said...

This was an ambitious endeavor (wow) and you did a great job.

One thing that is on my mind as I apply this year is that I wonder about how long instructors will stay at any particular school. Short of calling the school and asking about which professors are actually tenured, I have no idea how to predict with any kind of accuracy. I worry when I think of, for example, Tony Hoagland being at Pitt one minute, and then, it seemed, a minute later was at Houston. 'Any advice on this?

Thank you so much for this list -- it's proving to be really helpful.

Bravo.

Doran-san said...

Not sure if this is how to vote. Anyway:

BU
Emerson
Hunter
Sarah Lawrence
Alabama
Arizona
San Diego State
San Francisco State
University of San Francisco
Mills
Eastern Washington
Idaho
Alaska Fairbanks

-Doran

nick said...

Seth, I left you the following question on the "Creative Writing MFA Handbook" blog: do you know if the 2nd edition Ph.D program listing has been expanded from the 1st edition listing? From your comment below, it sounds the 2nd edition has 6 more Ph.D. program listings than the 1st. Is that right? Also, given the fact that FSU is a public Univ (which I equate with not so good funding), are there Ph.D program funding resources listed in the 2nd edition? Finally, I see FIU made the MFA list and FAU (my alma mater) didn't. Any thoughts on the rationale behind this? Thanks in advance.

Nick

Seth Abramson said...

Hi Sara,

I think the lesson there is probably to weight the importance of "faculty" in your decision process accordingly; one reason I always tell folks to give "faculty" a notable but not overwhelming place in their assessment is that MFA faculty move on quickly and are often on sabbatical. Another, even more important reason is that admiring someone's work is an altogether different matter from finding them a good fit for you personality-wise or pedagogically. Consequently, I tend to put "faculty" in the second-most-useful "knowable but unquantifiable" category of assessment factors/data-points (the most useful category is "knowable," the least useful is "unknowable").

Best of luck,
Seth

Seth Abramson said...

Hi Nick,

Checking both editions, it looks like what was a paragraph in Chapter 3 in the first edition is now (as to Ph.D. in Creative Writing programs) a six-page essay by Ed Schwarzschild in Chapter 2C. That said, I don't believe the programs are profiled individually in the second edition. The most helpful tool I've seen thus far (and it isn't much) is, not to toot TSE's own horn, the Ph.D. rankings in the right-hand sidebar of this blog.

That said, I can also tell you that Ph.D. funding is a totally different bag than MFA funding. Generally speaking, all Ph.D. candidates are fully funded--basically everywhere. The question, then, isn't so much whether you'll pay tuition (you won't), but how big the stipend will be. The highest stipends out there hover around $17,000/year; the lowest are right around $10,000/year.

I'd definitely advise you not to make judgments about funding based on the public/private distinction; there's no connection. FSU, for instance, has one of the top thirty or so best-funded MFA programs, and Columbia (a very rich private institution) has one of the very worst.

Re: specific programs, I can tell you that FAU is listed under "Other New Programs" in the second edition of the Handbook. [Due to a printer's error, the word "University" was unintentionally elided]. I'm guessing FAU hasn't made the MFA rankings yet because of its newness (it was founded sometime after 2002, I believe).

Best,
Seth

mister trickster said...

Hi Seth,

I appreciate your effort on the blogger poll and I respect the time you've put in as well as your stated efforts to judge the schools where applicants are applying. I saw the debate on your poll thread on the MFA blog and because there was concern raised about the debate distracting from the purpose of the thread, I'm sending the question over here.

Someone at the other blog wrote: "I'm with Amanda upthread who said she was interested in what her competition would be this time around. I'm just plain curious about everyone else who is going through what I'm experiencing."

Is it fair to say that it is a genuine concern that we can not know what our competition is? We know where people are applying, but we don't know whether they're not applying to certain programs for strategic reasons such as different aesthetics, for example, or applying to some moderately well thought of programs because of a higher confidence getting in there or applying less to very selective programs out of a fear of not getting in?

I like the blogger poll and I think it provides a lot of very important information. I think in the long run students applying to these attractive but second or third tier considered programs (in the latest MFA handbook) will boost the graduate success at those schools, causing their program's attractiveness to correlate positively with its reputation.

But would your answer to competitiveness right now (among prospective applicants) be that its just a part of the poll and that it is relevant to the rankings goal of establishing which programs students want to apply to, only?

Seth Abramson said...

MT,

While I think everyone has a slightly different philosophy about how to select an application list, generally speaking my sense is that most applicants apply to the very best schools they think they have a realistic chance of getting into; because there are no "safety schools," it's probably less common with MFA applications than undergraduate applications that students will regularly be applying to "less selective" programs as some sort of overall strategy. It's unlikely partly because we don't know enough acceptance rates yet (i.e. there isn't enough data available) for applicants to make decisions primarily based on such data, and even the data which is available is fraught with complications (for instance, Northern Michigan University's yield-exclusive acceptance rate is actually lower than Columbia University's yield-considered acceptance rate, so what should/do applicants do with that information?). I think, generally speaking, the reason the ranking "works out" as a way of partially assessing program esteem among applicants is because even those applicants who "tier" their application list are still making in-tier distinctions: in other words, the candidate who says s/he is going to apply to five schools with acceptance rates below 5%, and five schools with acceptance rates above that mark, must still distinguish "within" each category. And so the applicant will choose (say) Virginia over Texas, and (as to the latter category) Arizona over Columbia. Add this "within-tier" line-drawing to the fact that, generally, most applicants are following the rule of "apply to the highest number of highly-regarded programs you feel you have a realistic chance of getting into," and I think the net result is a Blogger Top 100 ranking that reflects the esteem these programs are held in by applicants who conduct their research online. While only the Acceptance Rate tables on this website can tell you overall application numbers, the Blogger Top 100 can at least point to trends; using the Blogger Top 100, for instance, I predicted what most observers thought unlikely or impossible but which we now know for a fact: Columbia University's applications are down since 2003. Of course, the reason the Acceptance Rate table application numbers don't perfectly match the Blogger Top 100 ranking is because those who don't use Poets & Writers or The Suburban Ecstasies or The Creative Writing MFA Handbook Blog for their research are still applying to schools based on data from last millennium. So, I would take the Blogger Top 100 ranking as being, all in all, a good guide, but yes, inexact.

Best,
Seth

mister trickster said...

Thanks Seth, that makes sense. Fair enough.

And I do also appreciate the work you've been doing publicizing the very attractive schools (especially second and third tier schools). If the program is going to work that hard to attract quality applicants then quality applicants really do want to hear about them.

Best,
Josh

boody said...

As for UVA, it is true that Charles Wright will be retiring at the end of the next school year, as I understand things. However, Greg Orr is going strong and a finer teacher of poetry you can't find. Anywhere.

wcpoole said...

Seth,

I read the new MFA handbook you and Tom Kealey published. It was very helpful during the application process. Here is my list of schools for your poll.

San Diego State
USC
U. of Washington
U. of Denver
U. of Minnesota
U. of Illinois - Chicago
U. of Georgia
George Mason
U. of Maryland
SUNY Binghamton
Syracuse
U. of Massachussets - Amherst

Joel Wayne said...

Greetings Seth. Having recently finished with my applications to ten MFA programs, I found your and Tom Kealey's lists/info/blogs to be exceptional resources. I can't quite give any ranking of schools that deserve top billing, but I can give my top five choices:

1) Boston University
2) Penn State
3) Cornell University
4) University of Texas-Austin
5) University of Michigan

For me, it was especially important for each school to fulfill three specific guidelines - significant financial aid, location, and reputation. Maybe it's wishful thinking to believe you can go back to school without wallowing in debt, but it remains one of my goals. Thanks again for the postings.

B said...

I'd like to make a shout-out for University of Wyoming, which I think is lower than it should be on these rankings.

I'm a student in UW's MFA (so, biased), but turned down a bunch of higher ranking schools to come here.

The faculty's amazing: Brad Watson, Allyson Hagy, Craig Arnold, Beth Loffreda, Kate Northrop, Jeff Lockwood, Harvey Hix... Next year, Ed. Jones. Mark Jenkins, Joy Williams this spring. The faculty here are incredibly helpful, generous and dedicated to students. The community and location are great (smallish town, near the mountains, really smart but also supportive group of students)

Also, everyone's fully funded & even given a summer travel stipend ($2500) to do research &/or go somewhere and write. The dptmt's putting out a collection of student work this spring and every month, there are student MFA readings.

Anyway, just wanted to make mention of Wyoming as it seems to be slipping under the radar on this list.

M. said...

Seth,

I didn't list these at the MFA Blog site when you were compiling date. So here's my list now:

2009 for poetry

My schools...

Iowa
Cornell
UNCGreensboro
Washington University
Michigan
Montana
Ohio State
Oregon

My criteria: full funding, 2 year programs, good reputation with emphasis on the creative manuscript and teaching opportunities, reasonable cost of living, location.

I almost applied to John Hopkins and Virginia, too, but I decided to choose only one program with a $75 fee and slim chances. I was on a budget. I chose Cornell.

boody said...

oh, for flip's sake, don't apply to Wash U for poetry if you're a woman.

M. said...

I don't understand. Why shouldn't women apply to WashU?

Joshua said...

Hey, here are my 23. Yes, that's right, 23.

UNCG
UNCW
Iowa
Umass Amherst
UVA
Minnesota
McNeese
Arkansas
Vanderbilt
Notre Dame
Purdue
Alabama
LSU
Houston
UT@Austin
Hollins
Penn State
Michigan
Montana
Washington at St. Louis
FSU
Ohio State
Georgia College & State University

As you can tell, I really want to get into one of these.

Oh, here's the crazy thing. I applied to most of these places in poetry and nonfiction. Thereby doubling my chances! At least in number! Mwuaahahahahahah.

It doesn't cost more to apply to these schools in two genres (unlike say, at Rutgers Newark where it does.) I had a lot of free time at my day job, so luckily I could research this and pester cw departments.

I would also just like to tell people that Vanderbilt (at least this year), Arkansas and McNeese don't require an application fee. There may be more out there too.

Jessa said...

Applied in Poetry:

Univ. of Oregon
UMass Amherst
Univ. of NH
Colorado State

JACKSON BLISS @ 水と魂 said...

These are my top 10 for MFA:

Cornell
NYU
Michigan
FSU
Brown
Indiana
Texas-Austin
UC Irvine
Minnesota
Notre Dame

JACKSON BLISS @ 水と魂 said...

And for Ph.D Programs, I'd say:

USC
FSU
Houston
Utah
Southern Miss
UNLV
Denver
Missouri

TomatoHarvester said...

Hi Seth, Here is my list:

Alabama
Vanderbilt
ASU
U. Florida
VCU
U. Oregon
Rutgers - Newark
Temple (MA)
CCA
UNH
Colorado State U.
Brooklyn College
American
SDSU
UNLV
John's Hopkins
UMass
Emerson
LSU

Your blog has been absolutely essential to my MFA program research. I owe you not only gratitude, but a fruitful donation which I will live up to in the coming weeks. For, my next four years are entirely funded in large part thanks to this blog. (Alabama was a yes.) I will not only live up to my promise to pay up once my bank account gets above a hundred, but will blog extensively in the future about the importance of people paying for this resource.

And, I should say. I owe you for two years' worth of Suburban Ecstasies subscription as I was a hopeful, albeit unwieldy and ultimately unsuccessful poetry applicant last year.

This year a new genre and a clearer mind wrought the moment we all blog (or blog stalk) for - the bestest of all voicemails. Someone tolerates this writing?!

Anyway, thank you. Will push your cause for funding this site.

Roundaboutway said...

Anyone have any good information or advice about USC's MPW? I have hardly seen any mention of it after weeks of following posts on this site. I understand from the program itself that it is more or less a part time option (30 units vs 50-70 for others) and most students work f/t as well. I'm going to apply to the usual suspects, but want to add some so-cal options to flesh out the mix. UCI is ultra competitive and other than the low-res programs, USC seems to be it in my neck of the woods. (not jazzed about SDSU or UCSD). My genre will be fiction, although it SC does allow multi-genre study. I'm not too interested in following up with the PHD because I want to write, not teach primarily. Thanks for any help.

Ryan said...

I got an acceptance via US mail today from UW Milwaukee for the PhD in fiction.

Michael Fauver said...

Here's my list:

University of Michigan
University of Texas, Michener Center
University of California, Irvine
Iowa Writers' Workshop
Brown University
University of Virginia
New York University
Johns Hopkins University
Rutgers University, Newark
American University

Great work!

Winn Pasq said...

I submitted to:

Iowa
University of Michigan
University of South Florida

all for the poetry venue; almost submitted to the University of Las Vegas (they have an interesting international component), but decided that it was way too hot for me & the dog

Dickson said...

Here's my list of schools applied to:

Rutgers-Newark
UC Riverside
UC Irvine
Michigan
Iowa
Washington@St. Louis
Notre Dame
Florida State U.
Vanderbilt
Bowling Green
University of Montana
University of Oregon
UNC-Greensboro

ericmz23 said...

I wonder if you might have been a little hasty in your ranking of the program at Rutgers-Camden. I opted to attend the MFA Program here instead of a position with the Teach For America program because of the amount of direct contact and correspondence I was able to maintain with the program director while I was making my decision.

Though the program is still in its infancy, Rutgers-Camden offered me an extremely generous fellowship and various other aspects of financial aid support. My experience with the teaching staff thus far has been nothing short of positive. All of the professors in this program seem to genuinely care to see their students become better writers and are never opposed to meeting with students outside of the classroom. In the two semesters that I have been here, I have noticed such an incredible difference in my own work that would not have been possible without the guidance and support of Rutgers-Camden faculty. The monthly readings by visiting writers are exciting, informative, and offer us direct contact with people who have already made it in the world we're trying to break in to. We have also organized a monthly MFA Student Reading series that has been extremely well attended. This month's readers performed to a packed house of individuals at an off campus location. It was perhaps one of the most successful and well attended readings I have been to in quite sometime.

Yes, we may be new. Yes we may not be too well known yet (as it stands there are less than 20 of us in the program), but #63 does not accurately reflect my experience in this program in the least. Bigger isn't always better, right?

roohbaroo said...

i confess, i'm a lurker (but i did donate!) here's my list of 12, at long last (all for fiction)

Indiana University
University of Michigan
Cornell
Syracuse
Johns Hopkins
Univ of Virginia
Hunter College
NYU
Brooklyn College
Rutgers-Newark
UMass
Univ of Minnesota

jamie_mu said...

Seth, here is my list:

Cornell
Iowa Writers Workshop
Johns Hopkins
U Mass Amherst
Michigan Ann Arbor
UC Irvine

I applied to small programs (other than IWW) with funding.

Once my next chunk of financial aid comes in a couple of weeks, I will donate.

haznarepse said...

Waitlisted at McNeese via e-mail on March 3rd

Emily said...

In at UNH for nonfiction! Got a phone call a little while ago - they are accepting 5 per genre, but no funding is available for anyone until the 2nd year. I think someone may have said that already, so apologies if I am sharing old news.

I can confidently say I will be declining their offer, so if you are waiting but haven't received a call, don't give up hope!

bravenewlady said...

I'm officially not a lurker, as I just found this, AFTER the fact of eleven applications, listed:

University of Texas at Austin
University of North Carolina Wilmington
University of North Carolina Greensboro
Iowa Writers Workshop
Colorado State U
University of Colorado at Boulder
University of Washington
Vanderbilt University
University of South Carolina
George Mason University
University of Arkansas

Maria said...

not sure if this was mentioned in all of the comments, but Vanderbilt had no application fee this year if you applied online, and that is how I chose to apply there, and i'm sure many others threw it in their lots for the same reason.

rebecca said...

Seth,

I suppose I never gave my official list for this?

All for creative non-fiction (CNF), in order by application deadline:

University of Minnesota
George Mason University
University of Montana
University of Alabama
Vanderbilt University
University of Houston
Georgia College & State University


I would also like to note, though I do not think this will affect anything, that I applied for Minnesota first (Dec. 20) and GCSU last (Feb. 1), but I heard from both on the same day (rejection from Minnesota, acceptance from GCSU), February 28. So here is proof that they don't have to take FOREVER to decide.

Sarah said...

hey seth,

here's my list for fiction (first time posting it)

american
george mason
hollins
brooklyn college
hunter
the new school
columbia
sarah lawrence

thanks for all your work!

RAJohnson said...

Found this to be a helpful and interesting look at ranking the MFA Programs in the country.

I came to the discussion a bit late...but here's the list of schools I applied to this year (in Poetry):

-Long Beach St (where I am finishing my undergrad)
-San Fran St.
-UC-Irvine
-Wisconsin
-Oregon
-UMass-Amherst
-Florida
-Iowa
-Virginia
-Washington U
-Brown


I accepted my offer from UMass-Amherst. Excited to join them in September.

tjs said...

Seth -

any thoughts on the MFA in CW at The University of the South (Sewanee) - just four years old, but it is Sewanee - thanks!

ted